Carbohydrates

zippy · 20-01-2009, 08:10 PM

This is being a real head banger for me for some time now... how good are they for a carps nutritional needs,I have a understanding that its turned into Glycogen and where its stored but is there any nutritional value for the fish???

Gary poacher · 20-01-2009, 08:28 PM

All good diets need a fair share of carbs they take there place in any Good bait in my opinion

duckboy · 20-01-2009, 09:07 PM

go dairy, or nutz is my suggestion, high protien and high carb content, refine your own cassien, dont buy it from the suppliers who only take 100 kg plus enquires, with those essential fatty milky things left in and you wont believe the results, there its done, now go forth and multiply.........butter good too, but only if you clarify it, you got that noddies........sugar, well honey yes, sugar no, honey bloody expensive, cream not cheap, but add them in the right quantities and eggs to a dry mix, your cookig on gaz baby...

but wtf do i know right?
duck eggs, they have 3 times the carbs of chickenss eggs too...?

skeletor · 20-01-2009, 09:39 PM

a nice lasange will have em

JAPTIGER · 21-01-2009, 04:30 AM

carbs = energy...............no energy = lethargy, then you get bingo wings

Gary poacher · 21-01-2009, 07:54 AM

some sense at last well said japtiger ENERGY everything needs it

jimmyg · 21-01-2009, 08:27 AM

as i understand protiens and fats play a much more important role in a carps diet.Protien being used for growth and repair of tissue etc and fats the carps major source of energy.
carbohydrate plays a third and very small part of a carps diet.Hence why 50/50 mixes containing mainly semolina and soya flour (both of which are sources of carbohydrate) are referred to as crap baits.
Fish dont have the same metabolism as humans and require a completely different diet.

Gary poacher · 21-01-2009, 04:07 PM

without ENERGY they cant move if they dont move they DIE

duckboy · 21-01-2009, 05:25 PM

complex, or non complex. some carbo hydrates you need a stomach to digest carp dont have one of them.........?

duckboy · 21-01-2009, 05:53 PM

they can get energy from oils starches and sugars, the fats are oils and sugar so what happens to the starch as in the lasagne pasta product used by marathon runners for slow release energy eaten the day before the run, and high release energy sugars as consumed on the run and burnt of, + stored energies i.e. body fat...

now without the help of the metabolic function we have, i.e. fish are cold blooded thus they only require energies as quickly s they can use them, hense in the winter, they would want a higher protien in the bait, and in the summer, a higher fat and sugar content, now we then have to cross reference this against the type of fish 8a young still growing fish will requuire higher calcium content tht an older fish.....

when you start getting your head round the fact fred was forced to reveal what was in his baits, this is a guy who everyone i ever met who knew him said, he simpley never lost at anything. He did threaten to kill gerry savage, and gerry took this seriously enough to move to devon and did fred really tell gerry everything, i doubt we fish what he did.

oh what frerd told us about worked but it wernt the same as the stuff he used to give you, i never used it but i was woking on meat products not milk........

its simple fred used his tumble drier to make his own milk protiens then tried to give you a commercially availible replacement for the three main ingredients, that when you start to wok out where you can get a book on cheese making, and a second hand tumble drier that were in his bait....

see you didnt know he did his own refining, it was never mentioned to anyone in the group, the group were freds competition, why do you think he went to keston, to get away from those that persued him for ideas. These people did they know fred used a tumble dryier and the boxs of black magic they were supllied in were bought to appease a wife wyho married a docker and ended up living with an amature cheese maker.

hats off to mr wilton is my take, he left us with a badybuilding bait, that is like the difference in taste, carp do have taste you know, between honey and yougart dressing and powdered anchovie meal.......

geddit.....????????

why do you think carp got so big, freds published theories were straight darwinist approach to it that produced the boiley, want proof....

ok, next time call in sherlock holmes mister, got it...............thats to fred.

right go to france find a virgin water and hoof 10 kilo of whatver boily you like in sometimes it can take a week to start consistently catch on a virgin water especially with the new trend of boiley......bright orange tuttis are the best introduction boiley for france imo, unless its a pressured circuit type venue, those le\ valley aqua reds went bad either but they were milky.

now keston had the anglers actually fishing for those leenies for a god 20 years, before fred keston was a know carping mecca, chrissy hazzwell tried to keep it a secret, now when fred turned up he had seven runs off the road in an afternoon, so virgin boiley water, but heavy pressure, he hauls from within ten minutes of his little brown balls hitting the water, for years you been going in the wrong dirrection, but cause you is all so far up you own arses, it never occured to you did it.......

duckboy · 21-01-2009, 06:10 PM

the priceless thing about all this is echo, good name that, refused to publish my article that revealed freds amamture cheese making days, its a whey protiens and residual digestive compounds issue, yep enzimes, the next ingredient is the nut that gives of the fasted energy, not the brazil which is the hardest to break down, or the peanut which is a legume by genetic definition.

so we hazel nut and honey cream....

anthony worrel thompson snikkers cheese cake here we ****ing come

zippy · 28-01-2009, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyg

as i understand protiens and fats play a much more important role in a carps diet.Protien being used for growth and repair of tissue etc and fats the carps major source of energy.
carbohydrate plays a third and very small part of a carps diet.Hence why 50/50 mixes containing mainly semolina and soya flour (both of which are sources of carbohydrate) are referred to as crap baits.
Fish dont have the same metabolism as humans and require a completely different diet.

this is the reply i was hoping for,this debate has had me and a few of my friends talking into the small hours many a time,

cheers Jimmy.

RJ79 · 24-01-2010, 05:11 PM

Like humans carp have not evolved on carbohydrates so why would they need them in their diet?

zippy · 24-01-2010, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ79

Like humans carp have not evolved on carbohydrates so why would they need them in their diet?

do you understand how a carp use items of its diet to keep alive ???

old git · 24-01-2010, 06:13 PM

I think its all a load of bollox. Carp can live quite healthy without the crap we throw in for them.

RJ79 · 24-01-2010, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippy

do you understand how a carp use items of its diet to keep alive ???

No, and I dont care, but I do understand that for thousands of years carp have not evolved into what they are today by eating carbohydrates.

zippy · 24-01-2010, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ79

No, and I dont care, but I do understand that for thousands of years carp have not evolved into what they are today by eating carbohydrates.

Take the carbohydrates away from a live animals diet and see how long before its health goes pete tong.....Sorry

RJ79 · 24-01-2010, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippy

Take the carbohydrates away from a live animals diet and see how long before its health goes pete tong.....Sorry

We are not talking about live animals are we, were talking about cold blooded carp, how many carbohydrates are there in shrimps, snails, bloodworm and fry?
NONE! if a carp lives off a diet of shrimps, snails, bloodworm and fry its health goes all pete tong?
Yeah right

Conan the Librarian · 24-01-2010, 09:59 PM

Carp do not need carbohydrates to live but they wouldnt be the size they are today without all the flour that is thrown in our lakes in boilies, just as we humans are getting bigger and bigger on a junk food diet so are the carp that swim in our waters.

How many British lakes held 20lb carp before boilies were introduced, never mind about 30's 40's 50's etc

Could it be true?

jimmyg · 25-01-2010, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conan the Librarian

Carp do not need carbohydrates to live but they wouldnt be the size they are today without all the flour that is thrown in our lakes in boilies, just as we humans are getting bigger and bigger on a junk food diet so are the carp that swim in our waters.

How many British lakes held 20lb carp before boilies were introduced, never mind about 30's 40's 50's etc

Could it be true?

Dont think so conan, take a look at foriegn waters that have produced lage fish without the intervention of anglers bait.Cassien for example a massive water that has produced very large fish without angling pressure as has the orient, its more to do with availability of natural food and the genetics of the fish.
Home example would be the black mirror in the mere, that got big on naturals and a lack of pressure.

20-01-2009, 08:10 PM	#1
zippy Senior Member zippy is D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F Edit Join Date: Feb 2007 Age: 40 Posts: 430	Carbohydrates This is being a real head banger for me for some time now... how good are they for a carps nutritional needs,I have a understanding that its turned into Glycogen and where its stored but is there any nutritional value for the fish???

20-01-2009, 09:07 PM	#3
duckboy Senior Member duckboy is not getting outta pound! Edit Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In the little hut on the island Age: 41 Posts: 624	go dairy, or nutz is my suggestion, high protien and high carb content, refine your own cassien, dont buy it from the suppliers who only take 100 kg plus enquires, with those essential fatty milky things left in and you wont believe the results, there its done, now go forth and multiply.........butter good too, but only if you clarify it, you got that noddies........sugar, well honey yes, sugar no, honey bloody expensive, cream not cheap, but add them in the right quantities and eggs to a dry mix, your cookig on gaz baby... but wtf do i know right? duck eggs, they have 3 times the carbs of chickenss eggs too...? __________________ www.duckboy.com - Coming SOON!!!!! [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

20-01-2009, 09:39 PM	#4
skeletor Senior Member skeletor is jamin it in all the way Edit Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: inside an edam cheese Age: 39 Posts: 314	a nice lasange will have em __________________

21-01-2009, 08:27 AM	#7
jimmyg Carpy Elite jimmyg is dennis taylor's bastard love child Edit Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: aylesbury Posts: 3,011	as i understand protiens and fats play a much more important role in a carps diet.Protien being used for growth and repair of tissue etc and fats the carps major source of energy. carbohydrate plays a third and very small part of a carps diet.Hence why 50/50 mixes containing mainly semolina and soya flour (both of which are sources of carbohydrate) are referred to as crap baits. Fish dont have the same metabolism as humans and require a completely different diet. __________________ should have gone to specsavers!

21-01-2009, 05:25 PM	#9
duckboy Senior Member duckboy is not getting outta pound! Edit Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In the little hut on the island Age: 41 Posts: 624	complex, or non complex. some carbo hydrates you need a stomach to digest carp dont have one of them.........? __________________ www.duckboy.com - Coming SOON!!!!! [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

20-01-2009, 08:28 PM	#2
Gary poacher Senior Member Gary poacher has no status. Edit Join Date: Oct 2007 Age: 47 Posts: 994	All good diets need a fair share of carbs they take there place in any Good bait in my opinion

21-01-2009, 04:30 AM	#5
JAPTIGER Senior Member JAPTIGER is fed up with shit food from the seaside Edit Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: UP THE DRAINPIPE Age: 48 Posts: 252	carbs = energy...............no energy = lethargy, then you get bingo wings

21-01-2009, 07:54 AM	#6
Gary poacher Senior Member Gary poacher has no status. Edit Join Date: Oct 2007 Age: 47 Posts: 994	some sense at last well said japtiger ENERGY everything needs it

21-01-2009, 04:07 PM	#8
Gary poacher Senior Member Gary poacher has no status. Edit Join Date: Oct 2007 Age: 47 Posts: 994	without ENERGY they cant move if they dont move they DIE

21-01-2009, 05:53 PM	#10
duckboy Senior Member duckboy is not getting outta pound! Edit Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In the little hut on the island Age: 41 Posts: 624	they can get energy from oils starches and sugars, the fats are oils and sugar so what happens to the starch as in the lasagne pasta product used by marathon runners for slow release energy eaten the day before the run, and high release energy sugars as consumed on the run and burnt of, + stored energies i.e. body fat... now without the help of the metabolic function we have, i.e. fish are cold blooded thus they only require energies as quickly s they can use them, hense in the winter, they would want a higher protien in the bait, and in the summer, a higher fat and sugar content, now we then have to cross reference this against the type of fish 8a young still growing fish will requuire higher calcium content tht an older fish..... when you start getting your head round the fact fred was forced to reveal what was in his baits, this is a guy who everyone i ever met who knew him said, he simpley never lost at anything. He did threaten to kill gerry savage, and gerry took this seriously enough to move to devon and did fred really tell gerry everything, i doubt we fish what he did. oh what frerd told us about worked but it wernt the same as the stuff he used to give you, i never used it but i was woking on meat products not milk........ its simple fred used his tumble drier to make his own milk protiens then tried to give you a commercially availible replacement for the three main ingredients, that when you start to wok out where you can get a book on cheese making, and a second hand tumble drier that were in his bait.... see you didnt know he did his own refining, it was never mentioned to anyone in the group, the group were freds competition, why do you think he went to keston, to get away from those that persued him for ideas. These people did they know fred used a tumble dryier and the boxs of black magic they were supllied in were bought to appease a wife wyho married a docker and ended up living with an amature cheese maker. hats off to mr wilton is my take, he left us with a badybuilding bait, that is like the difference in taste, carp do have taste you know, between honey and yougart dressing and powdered anchovie meal....... geddit.....???????? why do you think carp got so big, freds published theories were straight darwinist approach to it that produced the boiley, want proof.... ok, next time call in sherlock holmes mister, got it...............thats to fred. right go to france find a virgin water and hoof 10 kilo of whatver boily you like in sometimes it can take a week to start consistently catch on a virgin water especially with the new trend of boiley......bright orange tuttis are the best introduction boiley for france imo, unless its a pressured circuit type venue, those le\ valley aqua reds went bad either but they were milky. now keston had the anglers actually fishing for those leenies for a god 20 years, before fred keston was a know carping mecca, chrissy hazzwell tried to keep it a secret, now when fred turned up he had seven runs off the road in an afternoon, so virgin boiley water, but heavy pressure, he hauls from within ten minutes of his little brown balls hitting the water, for years you been going in the wrong dirrection, but cause you is all so far up you own arses, it never occured to you did it....... __________________ www.duckboy.com - Coming SOON!!!!! [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

21-01-2009, 06:10 PM	#11
duckboy Senior Member duckboy is not getting outta pound! Edit Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In the little hut on the island Age: 41 Posts: 624	the priceless thing about all this is echo, good name that, refused to publish my article that revealed freds amamture cheese making days, its a whey protiens and residual digestive compounds issue, yep enzimes, the next ingredient is the nut that gives of the fasted energy, not the brazil which is the hardest to break down, or the peanut which is a legume by genetic definition. so we hazel nut and honey cream.... anthony worrel thompson snikkers cheese cake here we ****ing come __________________ www.duckboy.com - Coming SOON!!!!! [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

24-01-2010, 05:11 PM	#13
RJ79 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 306	Like humans carp have not evolved on carbohydrates so why would they need them in their diet?

24-01-2010, 06:13 PM	#15
old git Senior Member old git is A gentlemen Edit Join Date: Feb 2009 Age: 46 Posts: 183	I think its all a load of bollox. Carp can live quite healthy without the crap we throw in for them. __________________ Is very old, stinks of piss and is a wannabee carp talk regular.

24-01-2010, 09:59 PM	#19
Conan the Librarian Senior Member Conan the Librarian is thinking, Ketamine, just say neigh Edit Join Date: Mar 2007 Age: 58 Posts: 456	Carp do not need carbohydrates to live but they wouldnt be the size they are today without all the flour that is thrown in our lakes in boilies, just as we humans are getting bigger and bigger on a junk food diet so are the carp that swim in our waters. How many British lakes held 20lb carp before boilies were introduced, never mind about 30's 40's 50's etc Could it be true? __________________ If you force sex on a prostitute is it rape or shop lifting??